About Me
I am a former minister currently living in the southeastern USA. I am now an atheist, one who does not hold any belief in any god. If there is any divine or creative entity, I believe that he/she/it is probably conceived most accurately in deist terms. On Richard Dawkins’ 7-point scale of belief, I am a 6. This blog discusses my indoctrination into evangelical Christianity and my escape from that worldview toward a more enlightened, rational position. It is also a place for philosophical and political musings, and occasional attempts at humor.
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Hello darling,
I so wanted to read the rest of “Bride Advice” but it goes from English to who knows what. The devil’s work! LOL! Can you please look, edit and fix…it is too good to miss.
XOXO
Miss Kitty
Kitty:
Thanks for your note. I followed the link to the original pamphlet (which appears after an introduction from the group that posted it) and it worked for me. Anyway, we’ll give it another try here. I hope this one works for you.
Just in case the fancy link above doesn’t work, either click on this one or cut and paste it into your toolbar:
http://www.themediadesk.com/newfiles2/youngbride.htm
You are an an inspiration, Dear one!
What suburb? I’m from Annapolis.
Oh, and I have blog or two about crap too.
I probably have the opposite trek than you: from agnostic family into faith. FYI, my husband is a pastor and I’d kick his butt if he acted like those guys.
Hi, I just found your blog today. I am also an apostate. I was “saved” at 18 and went straight to an independent Baptist Bible college. Upon graduation I went to the infamous Bob Jones University where I earned an M.A. and Ph.D. in Theology. Then I went to Arizona and taught in a Baptist College for 9 years. Sometime during the last year my faith just evaporated. Not overnight but over a period of about a year. I have since left the faith entirely and consider myself an agnostic. Its great to meet you.
Jack
This is a fantastic blog.
After dedicating so many years to Faith, it takes great strength to step back, look at the situation, realize it no longer is an accurate representation of your belief system, and to take it to the next level by leaving the Faith lifestyle altogether.
The universe needs more people such as you.
Friend,
I hear your concerns… I want to respond, but don’t even know where to begin. In fact, as my four boys and wife are currently in the other room waiting for me to finish up for tomorrow night’s class I wonder if my attempt to share would even make a difference? I just want you to know that I’ve read some of your thoughts… and my heart is heavy. I read your passion and conviction for the beliefs you have and am saddened at how people can come to different worldviews and then attack one another. My passion is to know God (Jesus Christ) more fully with each passing day and to help others come to know Him. Blessings to you, your husband, and your two sons.
Sincerely & Respectfully,
Mike
Oaty:
My passion is to know God (Jesus Christ) more fully with each passing day and to help others come to know Him.
And why exactly are you announcing that here? Did anyone ask what your passion was? The title of the post was “About Me,” the “me” being The Chaplain. When she publishes an essay “About oatisobserver,” I think your comments will be appropriate.
Oatisobserver:
Thanks for dropping in. I’ve heard and read everything you could possibly share. I wasn’t hurt by people in the church, I wasn’t in the wrong denomination and therefore deprived of the the “real” gospel or the “relationship not a religion” that is evangelical Christianity, etc. You may stop wondering: whatever you share won’t make any difference.
As for your heart being heavy, that impediment is part and parcel of your religion. The only advice I can give is to refrain from being heavy-hearted on my account, or anyone else’s for that matter. My heart is much lighter since I shed the burden of Christian belief a year ago.
Ex, that was by far the funniest comment I have read in a while. Hey Chap, thanks for adding my new blog!!
TAG!!!
http://iambilly.wordpress.com/2008/11/25/the-6-things-meme/
Hi, not sure if comments are moderated or I just screwed up yesterday, so here I am again. Feel free to delete one of my selves.
http://aggregatedinfidels.blogspot.com/2008/12/apostates-chapel.html
Just added your blog to my Aggregated Infidels.
Rychard:
Thanks for adding me to your list.
Thank you for this site. It is tremendously helpful to me, a person who has finally told others that I am, indeed, not a believer anymore.
S in Ohio:
Thanks for your comment. I’m humbled by the thought that my ramblings here may actually benefit someone. I hope you’ll make yourself at home here and join in the conversations.
Thank You! This is a wonderful, inspiring, happy, positive site! I just found it today (through a link on About Atheism.com) and I can SO relate. Will visit here often!
Anna:
Thank you for your comment. I look forward to your visits and hope you will share more comments with us.
Nice, welcoming warm blog – the homilies are lovely. I hope your holiday is going well. I just want to say thanks for suggesting the word “apostate” – which according to the yahoo dictionary means, “One who has abandoned one’s religious faith, a political party, one’s principles, or a cause… from Greek apostatēs, from aphistanai, to revolt…” Princeton University’s Wordnet gives this more neutral version – “not faithful to religion or party or cause.” I’m not yet sure if this is the word I want to describe my own position, but it may turn out to be. I’m not an atheist, because my departure from my fundamentalist faith (which occurred over 28 years ago and continues to carry me further away each year) has made the whole question of whether there is or there isn’t a God totally irrelevant for me. But apostate might just work …
Scotlyn:
Thanks for reading some of my blog and leaving a comment. It doesn’t matter whether you ever attach a label to yourself, as long as you are comfortable with your beliefs (or lack thereof, as the case may be).
You’re right of course! and while labels are very limiting, the ongoing search for the word with the most descriptive content is a very interesting one… it may still fall short of conveying the full complexity of what is being described, but the search itself is a productive enterprise and often turns up curious surprises…
You rock! This is indeed a wonderful blog. Keep up the good work. If only this came in brochure form, like the Watchtower.
-Andrew
Is there freedom to express opinions here or is it tightly regulated?
I wonder why it took some people many years to find out that they
did not believe ? A big question is believe in what ? The church ?
I think the apostasy spoken about could be partly the church as
an organization and not always the individual. Religion comes in
many forms. It is often cold , brutal and impersonal, unfriendly.
Church leadership is often to blame. Man has interfered much in
the freedoms of individuals. Could that be part of the problem ?
Robert:
Thanks for the questions. To answer the first one, freedom of expression is encouraged and I don’t censor anyone’s comments.
As for your question about why it takes some people a long time to figure out their disbelief, I’ll note that, for many of us – including me – it takes a long time to overcome childhood indoctrination. That’s why many of us – again, including me – find child evangelism particularly repulsive.
If you’re interested in gaining a better understanding of deconversion from Christianity, you may want to check out the De-Conversion blog.
(Full disclosure: I occasionally cross-post at the Decon blog.)
Do you think that you may have never been a believer in Christ and were just deceived?
Some would say that you never had a true faith anyway. Or you may have and you basckslid.
I would be interested in your response. I think of a Bible quote that mentions the words “Many in that day will call me Lord, Lord and He will say I never knew you”.
Interesting site.
Former pastor
@ Robert:
Do you have any idea how often former believers hear the “perhaps you were never a true believer” line? Do you have any idea how insulting that is to those of us who sincerely believed and lost our faith? I’ll give you a hint – it’s very insulting! If you’re comfortable with understanding what happened to me as backsliding, so be it.
In your first comment on the Death and Heaven post, you said, “Seek God and He will reveal Himself if you are sincere.” If you read this post, you’ll discover that, when I was losing my faith, I desperately wanted God to erase my doubts and reveal himself to me. Like most other people who have rejected religion, I was a sincere believer and I did not give up my faith easily; I fought hard to keep it. I wept when I could no longer believe, and I mourned my loss of God as if my best friend had died. De-converting is earth-shattering. I know now that I’m in a better place intellectually, psychologically, emotionally, socially, etc., than I ever was as a Christian. But, I also know that you can’t fathom how that’s possible.
I understand how hard it is for true believers to believe that people who believe just as fervently as they do, who love and worship God with all their hearts, who make substantial material sacrifices to advance the Christian mission, can turn away from faith. After all, if one such Christian could do it, how can others, perhaps people like you, be sure that it will never happen to them? Honestly, I never imagined that I would reject God and Christianity. But, when I looked at the data, all I could say was, “Here I stand; I can do no other.”
I am not attempting to be hurtful or mean -spirited. I may be a bit blunt but
I wanted to cut the crap and get to the point. Were you of Calvinist or Arminian
persuasion ? Not trying to stereo-type but it is helpful to know some back ground.
I find that you are an interesting person that is somewhere in the doubt stage somewhere.
You are sharing like you were a “true believer” and now you are not. If you were
and now are offended because of sincerety that should tell you something. I often reject
religion and some of the spiritual leaders. They have burned me more than once but my faith
in Christ is firm. I have bad days and have questions. Most of the time I am to blame for what happens to me. I do not blame God for everything. I blame others when it is due but I still
believe in forgiveness but also accountability.
You will know where I am going when I share of the free-will teaching. We do live in a sin
sick world and we have freedom of choice . We are not robots and God gives us choices.
What I choose to do tomorrow may be helpful to you or hurtful. I wish that God
would intervene right now on some issues but He has reasons that I do not understand at
this time.
Evidently you went through much pain in the past when you rejected God. It was like a
divorce. Be assured that God still cares. After 25 years as a pastor I can say that I do not
understand all that you went through and all your view points but I am not lifeless
and cold. I care too. We have a hole in our soul and we need it filled.
Thanks for your understanding and time.
Bob
@ Robert:
Thank you for your concern for my soul. You don’t need to bother sharing your Free Will doctrine with me. My spiritual heritage was Wesleyan-Arminian and I’m well versed in the teachings of John Wesley. I also think that Charles Wesley was certainly one of the greatest hymn writers ever, perhaps the greatest. I’m also familiar with Calvinism and agree that Wesleyan-Arminianism seems like a breath of fresh air compared to that school of thought.
No offense intended, but, I thought I made it clear in the previous comment, and my post about the way I grieved my loss of faith, that I’m not in the “doubt” stage at all anymore. I passed that stage two years ago. Again, no offense intended, but do you have any idea how presumptuous one appears when one makes such pronouncements about another person’s spiritual state? Especially when the pronouncement is based on a superficial and short-lived acquaintance, such as ours?
Let me state clearly that I do not blame God for anything – I don’t believe in any gods anymore. Perhaps I could return the favor you’ve extended and share with you why evolution, which is a fact, creates significant theological issues for belief in the Judeo-Christian deity. If you don’t believe evolution is a fact, then I assume you don’t get flu shots every year or otherwise depend on modern medicine, because all of the advances in medicine in the past 150 years have been founded on evolutionary theory. Why do you think testing new medicines on mice and chimpanzees is so effective for predicting the effects of medicine on humans? It’s because we have so much genetic material in common.
Or, I could share with you why much Christian theology is based on poor reasoning practices. When one doesn’t assume God as one of the premises of one’s argument, one doesn’t get a conclusion that leads to him. When one does assume God as a premise, one ends up with an extra assumption that inevitably leads one to say something along the lines of “X happened because of Y, and God did something too.”
I understand where you’re coming from when you speak of disappointment in spiritual leaders. Anyone who has spent more than a couple of months in a church has experienced it. You may be surprised to learn this, but I’m actually more sympathetic when leaders fail now than I was as a Christian. The reason for this is that I no longer expect humans to behave as if they’re guided by a supernatural being. This doesn’t mean I give people free passes when they do wrong; it just means that I understand that they are as human and fallible as I am, and the only tools they have to work with are the same ones I have – human intellect, human empathy, etc. There is no deity to prevent child molesters from molesting children or committing other harmful acts. I expect Christians to behave no more or no less morally than I expect non-Christians to behave. I’ve also become much more adept at negotiating social and professional situations since I started evaluating everyone by identical standards.
Contrary to your belief, I don’t have a hole in my soul. As I mentioned in my previous comment to you, I’ve found more peace as a nonbeliever than I ever did as a believer. I know you can’t fathom that. Nevertheless, it’s true. I no longer wonder whether I failed God in some way today, whether I did or said something stupid that may prevent someone from grokking the gospel and doom that person to eternity in hell, why my prayers for healing for friends and loved ones are answered inconsistently, etc.
Robert, I respect your sincerity, but I honestly don’t think there is anything you can share with me about God that I haven’t heard before. You’re free to come and share your gospel, this blog is a free speech zone, but don’t be surprised if people respond to your good news with jeers, catcalls, mockery, sarcasm and disbelief. You’d be surprised how many atheists and agnostics were once committed Christians – often leaders in their churches in lay and professional pastoral roles. You’d probably also be surprised, and disappointed, that many atheists and agnostics are more familiar with the Bible and more theologically knowledgeable than many professing Christians. I understand your interest, but honestly don’t think this blog will be a fertile ground for sowing your gospel seeds. You can try if you want, but you’ll probably find it will have been a waste of your time.
Thanks for an honest and open discussion. You are right about the jeers.
I think that this is a place where some formers share and compare. I would
agree with some of your comments too. Some things I do understand and
others not at all. I am cetainly one that has questions and looks for answers where possible.
You have been helpful in what you have shared.
Dude–
Go to Gr. Orthodoxy, and spend several years studying..
See what you find out.
Your change of mind is not Christ’s change of mind.
You should know . . .
jbiii
I have studied over the many years. Greek Othodoxy has
a belief of praying for the dead. That is about the only thing
that atheists and I have in common. Neither I nor they pray
for the dead. They do not believe in eternity and so they do
not pray at all. I pray to Jesus. I am of protestant conservative
background of mostly the holiness movement but high exposure
to Neo-Calvinism. Most of my German relatives were Roman Catholic.
When I responded to the chaplain I understood where she was
coming from somewhat as an atheist and I respect her opinion.
I agree with some of her statements and understand some of them
but I have not changed my mind about God and my understanding of
theology. I do not claim to know everything , but I do know this “I
do not know what the future holds but I know who holds the future.”
I hope even in a small way I have responded to your statements so
you are aware of what I meant.
Thanks
Bob
Theosis.
jb
Re: your “Atheist Quotes” feature this week – Thomas Aquinas was a Christian.
cl:
I know very well that Aquinas was one of Christianity’s most brilliant scholars.That doesn’t change the fact that his quote supports the position of many atheists. I’ve got a dandy of a quote from Pope Leo that I’ll post sometime.
I have trouble fitting myself on the Dawkins Scale. I am a 7 if by “God” one means the patriarchal God of the Fundamentalists (Roman Catholic and Protestant Evangelical) – I am absolutely certain that God does not exist. OTOH the God that one sees in the face of a little child – I am pretty sure that one exists and at least I am going to live as if she does so I guess that makes me a 2. Appreciate your insights.
A most interesting thread . . .
I wish all of you well in your journey through this life. I pray for your journey into the next.
It is no surprise that Western Protestants, on the whole, reject their faith–it is ultimately the only logical conclusion, in the end. Who would ever wish to worship a pissed-off God. No one–the “success” of Calvinism in the West.
One either accepts Scripture, which Calvin ultimately did not, and studies to allow it to interpret itself, or rejects it. Again, passing no judgment–”you” have to decide.If you wish to blame God for Calvin . . . well . . .
Will it matter? Now that is a question for the ages–about which none of us breathing can truly admit we know. At best, we all “stab at the dark”–which the true atheist will admit. There is nothing beyond that, that anyone can rationally defend. God is a “yes or no” question. Trying to work some wiggle room in-between is simple dishonesty. Yes or no, and live with teh consequences.
The understanding of the western view of sanctification is to become holy after justification–viewed as a judicial act–not sacrificial. Calvin insisted on “obedience”–and the result is clear for all to see–a bastardized faith that can’t even recognize the meaning of the word “Gospel.” Luther tried to communicate with the Greeks, but that was upset by the Moslems. Rome was so pre-occupied with Petrine succession that they lost millions.
The Greeks kept pressing forward, and still do. Theosis. It is there, for those who do believe, and even, for those who can’t decide if God does exist. Herb–you came so close . . . and missed it all. But someday, maybe . . .
I won’t argue this any further. It’s your call. Always has been. It is not merely history or existential experience. If it were, you would be your own “god.”
In XP–
jb
enjoy your blog. I was never “saved” because I’ve been an atheist since age 6. Did try religion, but well, it just didn’t “figure out” for me.