After nearly a week of technological deprivation, I’m catching up on my blog reading. I was intrigued by this post from vjack, because it addresses a topic that has been on my mind recently: government restrictions on alcohol consumption.
My interest in this topic was initially sparked two years ago when the deacon and I drove our camper into a state park in Pennsylvania and were greeted by a huge, in-your-face sign declaring that alcohol is prohibited in the park. Smaller, but similar, signs were scattered throughout the park. Clearly, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania was not kidding. This interest was re-ignited on Memorial Day weekend when we attended a family gathering at a county park in Virginia and spotted a sign prohibiting alcohol consumption in that park. A few weeks later, we pulled into a Maryland state park and saw yet another sign announcing the same policy. As in Pennsylvania, similar signs were scattered throughout the park to ensure that errant campers and day-trippers would have no excuses for not being aware of the policy. If you’re a day-tripper enjoying a barbecue at a state park beach or county park pavilion, forget about having a beer with your hot dog and potato salad. If you’re a camper grilling a steak over a fire in a Maryland or Virginia or Pennsylvania state park (and many others – more states prohibit alcohol consumption in their parks than allow it), don’t even think about whether to pair it with Cabernet or Merlot. If you’re caught drinking booze, you’ll be thrown out of the park and fined.
In contrast to these outright bans on alcohol consumption, the Ontario Provincial Park we visited last week simply restricted alcohol consumption to camp sites. Campers could consume alcohol at their sites, but could not carry open containers between camp sites. We didn’t have to hide inside our camper to sneak a few sips of wine, but, if we wanted to share our bounty with the campers in the next site, we had to bring them pristine, unopened bottles, corks intact. Weird, but certainly preferable to an outright ban. Day-trippers using the beach or other facilities were not allowed to carry or consume alcohol in the park at all. Interestingly, this park (along with many other provincial parks across Canada) had a full ban on alcohol in mid-May, during the period immediately prior to and including Victoria Day (the Canadian “first weekend of summer,” similar to the USA’s Memorial Day). Similar bans are sometimes in effect for other long weekends, such as Labor Day, too. Presumably, the purpose of these bans is to curb excessive drunken partying as Canadians emerge from their long, cold winter into summer, and again as they prepare to re-enter another long, cold winter. Apparently, once the initial excitement of summer’s arrival dissipates, Canadian provincial park campers (but not day-trippers) can be trusted to moderate their drinking, at least until they are on the verge of re-entering winter hibernation season. Is it coincidental that publicly funded campgrounds across Canada are often full or nearly so, while many similar American campgrounds are not? How much of this disparity is due to cultural differences between the two countries, and how much is due to policy differences? Perhaps most intriguing of all, what are the relationships between the policy differences and the cultural differences within and between the two countries? I don’t know, but I think these questions merit investigation.
One may argue that banning alcohol consumption by day-trippers is a good policy. After all, no one wants people to imbibe excessively at the park, then drive home and endanger themselves, their passengers, and other travelers on the roads. One may argue that. But then, one would also have to argue that alcohol should not be served in most public venues. Restaurants? People often drive to and from those establishments. Sporting events? Again, people often drive to and from those venues. Are the people who frequent privately owned and operated establishments more responsible consumers than those who frequent public parks? I doubt it. So, my question is, why are governments, particularly throughout the USA, banning or restricting alcohol consumption in public spaces that are paid for by funds collected from the public?
Another rationale that might be put forward is that alcohol bans and restrictions reduce the need for park rangers and other personnel to deal with alcohol-fueled crises – fights, boat crashes, etc. This applies to day-trippers as well as overnight campers. My response to this is, since most people who imbibe do so responsibly, and do not create crises for park rangers or anyone else, this seems to be a case of punishing the whole class in order to discipline a few class clowns. Beer is not banned in baseball stadiums because stadium security guards have to escort a handful of rowdy drinkers from the park during any given game. Most people at ballgames drink responsibly (admittedly, people sitting in the vicinity of a drunken loudmouth may find this hard to believe). Similarly, most people who frequent government parks do not create problems for anyone. They should not be inconvenienced because a few troublemakers may be in their midst.
Yet another rationale that might be proffered is that parks should be family-friendly – alcohol-free places are more appropriate for families than those in which alcohol is being consumed. My response to this rationale is, many restaurants that serve alcohol are family-friendly: they have high chairs, booster seats, crayons and coloring sheets, and special kids’ menus available for those who require such amenities. Similarly, sports teams market to families all the time: celebrate Junior’s birthday at the ballpark – bring a glove to catch a foul ball or two, buy him a cap (although, if you come on Cap Day, we’ll give him one for free) – and don’t forget to have Junior’s name emblazoned on our state-of-the-art Jumbotron! That doesn’t stop them from selling alcohol to adults through the seventh inning. Hell, even amusement parks – the quintessential American family-friendly venues – serve alcohol. Clearly, the presence, visibility and consumption of alcohol do not, in themselves, render places or events inappropriate for minors.
And yet another rationale that some put forward is that drinking is immoral and/or unhealthy and restricting or banning it is good for individuals (even if they don’t know it) and society. Some of these people would ban alcohol entirely, if they could. In fact, they tried that last century, and the results were less than spectacular, to say the least.
So, why do publicly funded parks in a secular society ban or restrict alcohol consumption? Are such bans knee-jerk reactions of elected officials in a country in which religious conservatives have disproportionate influence? Are they vestiges of a bygone Prohibitionist era (which was largely fueled by religion)? I honestly don’t know. What I do know is that campgrounds in many publicly funded American parks are underutilized. Is this due, in part, to oppressive alcohol policies? Again, I don’t know. But, I think these questions and policies should be examined – preferably while not under the influences of either alcohol or religion.
– the chaplain






Moe
July 24, 2010 at 12:45 pm
Actually, chaplain, I don’t think it’s any of the reasons you iterated. I think it’s fear of liability. I think it’s the same reason I have to sign or initial a pile of paperwork when I go to the dermatologist saying things like I give my consent for the doctor to treat me. Liability.
A group of volunteers recently build a playground at our non-government community center. Basic good quality off the shelf stuff, a few pieces made by retired master carpenters. The entire thing gated and monitored. A beautiful project, cheered on by the neighborhood. We got shut down. Liability. The agent saw it, told us how much new insuracne we’d need to cover it – too much for us actually. Then the County came by and said this doesn’t meet our standards (and the only thing that could is one they build themselves – to get the County to build one for our neighborhood kids would take years of lobbying them)
So volunteers are not valued, kids are denied a playground they need and were excited about and no one benefits. Liabilty.
The irony – in my mind at least – is that when awful things do happen, they are usually the result of neglect, not because a slide was no good.
And no number of laws can prevent neglect or other behaviors in people who don’t care about laws or other people.
the chaplain
July 24, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Moe:
Fear of liability – good answer, and one I hadn’t considered. So, this could be, in part, a case of culture driving policy: a litigious society engenders fear of litigation, which in turn engenders paternalistic and/or cover-your-ass policies. Canadian society is not as litigious as American society, so Canadians don’t have to be protected from themselves and their neighbors (and provincial governments don’t have to be protected from blame, misplaced or otherwise) to the same degree as their American counterparts. I don’t see it as a complete explanation, but it fits into the mix somewhere.
Moe
July 24, 2010 at 6:20 pm
I know you’re not as litigious as we are, but you do need to be cautious – all too many of our worst habits get tossed over the border in hopes they’ll take root.
And yes, fear of being sued doesn’t explain it all – there’s plenty of Victorianism left in our cultures even today. So the sins of modern life – sex, drinking etc – still can elicit a prohibition attitude.
Maybe we’ll learn some day!
Kagehi
July 24, 2010 at 3:14 pm
Another one may be plain common sense. The US isn’t exactly a store house of people willing to pick up there own damn trash, and probably 1:10 idiots taking stuff into a public park wouldn’t clean up after themselves. I would bet that, given a group, adding drinking to that would raise the number to something closer to 8:10, just due to people tending to act like the other people around them, while in such a group.
But, underutilization also comes from one other factor. If you are talking about “park” as in nature reserve style, getting in, parking, or even paying to get through the gate, are all stupid now, to the point where, in some cases, if you can’t hike in, 10 miles, with packs, after paying a big chunk of money at the door, you can’t *get* in. City parks, on the other hand, have a whole other set of ordinances attached that often create issues, they are perceived, sometimes rightly, as dangerous places the freaks and drug dealers hang out, and, more to the point, like everything else in large cities, the city has grown, but the number of parks have not. This means that, like nearly everything else in the city, you have to take time off something else, to drive to the park, which may be miles from where you actually live.
Its been suggested by some people that we badly need to rethink how we build towns and cities, so there are mini-parks, or if we do have a bigger one, its more central, and smaller ones *are* available to the outlying areas. Instead, most people building housing a) don’t bother trying to add a park to the neighborhood they build, and b) often do not care if the only park nearby is 30 miles away, possibly in some other city. In short, they are not always convenient to get to, safe, close by, etc.
The exceptions I have seen have invariably been places like my old home town, where we had 3, two of them smaller, and the main one was “central” to the entire town, and had the public pool on it, and the one here, which is “attached” to the beach, where all the boaters and swimmers are anyway. In other words, places where the size of the main city made it likely people would “go” there, even if it was just to buy something nearby, or happenstance placed it right next to another major source of recreation. Most places, *neither* is true, and growing less and less common.
Mark
July 24, 2010 at 6:19 pm
I agree with this. For the most part, Americans are probably the most disrespectful bunch around. Graffitti, vandalism and theft are the result of this disrespect for common areas.
Moe
July 24, 2010 at 6:23 pm
Hey guys! Give a neighbor girl a break here! We may be disgracefully gluttonous and anti-intellectural, but we have beten graffiti!
When I was a kid (I am not young) there was a presumed appreciation for and respect for ‘the commons’. But in the last 30+ years, the artificial culture of individualism has changed that and turned respect to scorn. I don’t know if we get back.
Moe
July 24, 2010 at 6:24 pm
‘beaten graffiti’ not ‘beten graffiti’. Usually, we’re very good spellers, but . . .
Mark
July 24, 2010 at 8:00 pm
As long as the majority of the US are Christian, we will never get back. They are the ones that act like they are unaccountable to fellow humans.
They lead in crime and incarceration rates, unlike the non-Christian population.
Moe
July 25, 2010 at 4:05 pm
That’s because they’re sure they’re god’s chosen! So whatever they do it right of course.
PhillyChief
July 25, 2010 at 11:39 am
Littering isn’t the issue, because one can not pick up after their soda cans or bottled water as well as beer cans and bottles.
Richard T
July 25, 2010 at 8:45 am
Isn’t it what HL Menken described as the dread in the puritan mind that someone somewhere might be enjoying themself match given effect by the bureaucratic impulse to stop people doing anything for pleasure?
the chaplain
July 25, 2010 at 9:06 am
Yes, Mencken’s quote is apt, I think.
the chaplain
July 25, 2010 at 8:54 am
Kagehi:
Sad to say, your “common sense” answer rings all too true. That’s why the realist in me is hesitant to lift alcohol bans at park day use areas, such as beaches. It’s all too easy to picture drunken idiots getting loud and abusive, and leaving cans and bottles in their wake. Nevertheless, the idealist in me cries out that this may still be a case of everyone losing out because of the few who can’t, don’t, or won’t, control themselves. I also chafe at the paternalistic, “we have to ban this for your own (and everyone else’s) good” attitude implied by such bans.
I still think such bans could be lifted from campgrounds. The movement of people in and out of those areas is not as fluid as it is in day use areas, so those few people who would abuse the privilege (and there likely would be some) in the campground can be dealt with readily. I just don’t see how it’s right to deprive the majority because of the foolishness of a few.
Moe & Mark:
I agree that the concept of “the commons” has disintegrated, if not nearly disappeared, in our lifetimes. What else can we expect, since “the commons” themselves have largely disappeared? Many of our “common” areas, such as parks, have been relegated to defined, regulated spaces, entry to which often requires admission fees. Paying to gain access to the commons is an irony that is nearly unbelievable if one thinks about it a moment.
vjack
July 25, 2010 at 9:06 am
Thanks for the link love. The subject of alcohol bans in public parks is one I haven’t thought of in some time and was certainly a good one to raise. I suspect this is yet another example of Christians passing laws to make the rest of the population conform to their wishes.
PhillyChief
July 25, 2010 at 11:48 am
I find that a far too simplistic answer and one that just conveniently aligns with your views. Hell, it aligns with mine as well but the liability issue seems far more plausible.
The other issue is public drunkenness. At a ballpark it’s ok because everyone is rowdy and yelling, but not so on your average street or public park. The rowdiness is undesirable. The issue of a restaurant is different as well because you’re talking about at best 2 hours, usually less of time and if you are a loud drunken ass, most places will ask you to leave. Most people just want peace and quiet and generally that doesn’t occur when people drink so it’s easier to ban it. Can people be assholes without drinking? Sure, but unfortunately a lot of people become assholes when they do. This is why a lot of strip clubs don’t allow alcohol (usually the fully nude ones).
Too easy to blame the Christians on this one.
Nightcap
July 25, 2010 at 12:40 pm
With respect, Phllly, the only reason a strip club would not permit alcohol is that they can’t get a liquor license.
I once worked for a state agency responsible for the maintenance of public parks. Even banned, there’s a big problem with broken beer bottle litter. Most soft drinks come in plastic, but a lot of booze comes in glass.
PhillyChief
July 25, 2010 at 1:52 pm
I can see the glass issue, and I can see a full nude strip club wanting a liquor license. The places I’ve seen that are full nude sometimes are byob, and there are barricades around the stages with about a 6′ separation between barricade and stage. Those places are like circuses. About 15 years ago or so I was in Manhattan and a friend wanted to find one of those all nude places that served alcohol. None existed, and the bouncers all said the same thing, “where you from, Texas?” It made me wonder about Texas.
I think glass, liability and dealing with rowdy drunks are the main motivators.
Kagehi
July 25, 2010 at 2:46 pm
I wonder about Texas all the time. Wouldn’t surprise me if they served Alcohol, had crosses on all the walls, and everyone, including the strippers, where armed. lol
Moe
July 25, 2010 at 4:07 pm
They don’t carry guns into strip clubs in Texas, Kagehi, they carry them into churches. Really.
Kagehi
July 25, 2010 at 10:18 pm
Ah.. But.. What better than a strip club that is also a church? Mind, they do tend to keep their fake attempts at appeasing the angry sky beast separate from their above average indulgence in all the stuff they need to attend church to ask forgiveness for, so.. you are probably right. lol
Spanish Inquisitor
July 25, 2010 at 3:05 pm
I’m not so sure about liability as a major issue. All government has some form of sovereign immunity. That stems from the time when the king owned the country, and you couldn’t sue the king. If the government, as the owners of public parks, could be sued for something that happens in the park, they’d be sued for bear attacks, lost hikers, and bee bites, all potentially hazardous, simply because they knew such things existed and did nothing to prevent the public from being harmed by them. I can’t see it.
There are exceptions to liability by statute, but I don’t think public parks is one of them. PA has a statute delineating some exceptions, and dangerous conditions on Commonwealth property is one of them, but I’m not sure drunk visitors to the park would qualify, if it wasn’t something inherent in the ownership of the real estate, like swimming in the lake (which is usually well regulated and limited to specific areas).
I do think, however that trash (broken bottles, cost to remove, etc) is a one possible reason. I also agree that religion, in the guise of guidelines from the agency in charge, also plays some role. I also think that the general nanny state attempt to protect us from ourselves also plays a part. It’s a combination of factors, with the religious mentality being one, possibly the initial motivating force.
Remember Reagan’s Sec’y of the Interior? James Watt? He was a good Pentecostal Christian, and I would not be surprised if he had something to do with the US Park system rules, still in effect because in the end, they have collateral benefits.
Moe
July 25, 2010 at 4:09 pm
James Watts thought The Beach Boys shouldn’t bel allowed to perform in a park because they were a bad influence. He was a piece of work that guy.
oddhan
July 26, 2010 at 10:55 am
If religion had anything to do with alcohol bans, then why is government in charge of wholesale alcohol imports and retail sales in Oregon and Washington? Every attempt to liberalize the liquor laws has failed in very liberal Salem and Olympia.
Neglecting the parks issue, where drunken rowdy mobs are more of a concern than at, say, Red Robin, it’s the restaurant industry itself that pays big bucks to keep alcohol highly regulated.
Also, in such known theological hotbeds as Seattle, they are adding increasingly restrictive rules about what alcohol you can sell where in an attempt to keep the bums out of the tourist areas. Religion has little to do with blue laws any more.
PhillyChief
July 26, 2010 at 11:23 am
No doubt money plays its part. Those with liquor licenses certainly want to limit access to alcohol. Many states have taken over alcohol sales, and PA is one of them, but why do you think PA liquor stores are closed on Sundays? Curious. Religious holdover? If the motivation isn’t religious anymore, then perhaps people today have found other excuses to take advantage of those formerly religious based regulations. I know the PA police take advantage of the ban on Sunday sales as well as the ban on transporting alcohol across state lines to confiscate booze bought in DE and NJ. If you’re from PA and buy booze in DE or NJ, look around for a PA cop in the parking lot or nearby. At least take some time to drive around the neighborhood before heading back to PA just in case The Man is following you, especially if it’s close to New Year’s Eve (they must have great parties considering all the booze they confiscate).
Sarge
July 26, 2010 at 3:46 pm
I think it is more the fact of what an irresponsible boozer can get up to when there is no oversight than what Mister Fourth Beer hints that it woiuld be a good idea to do.
Most of these activities involve conduct that incroaches on the peace of their neighbors, or doing something which has consequenses which cause damage.
Best to ask (((Billy))) since he is, in fact, a ranger with the park service and would know if anyone does.
By the way, when I lived in your area when I was a kid, if you went on the George Washington Parkway, or US 1 going from DC to Ft. Belvoir, you couldn’t see most of the ground for a good distance into the woods for most of the trip.
It was covered with trash and garbage that people had simply dumped.
royce reed
July 27, 2010 at 6:52 am
for an exotic animal the way it requires? Bans protect the animals well being but they also protect humans. People have no business owning an exotic animals that could prove dangerous. Imagine if people…
Lorena
July 27, 2010 at 3:54 pm
I don’t have much to offer in the way of wisdom, but I do appreciate the comparison between the two cultures. Most Canadians would give you a standing ovation for recognizing how different the two cultures are.
Your comment on state parks being under utilized in the States is quite interesting. Here out West, we have provincial parks galore and we feel lucky when we can find a campsite without a reservation.
I think it’s cultural. Canadians love the outdoors. Americans like the comfort of a luxury hotel. Every time we travel abroad we find Americans enjoying the hotel so much that they rarely leave it. While Canadians hit the pavement to see all the sights.
Of course not everyone will fit the generalization, but I’ve seen enough of it that I’m convinced that’s the case with the majority.
I’m not sure that alcohol has anything to do with camping, but as they say at the end of every scientific study, the issue merits more research.
Eric the rabid non-theist
August 4, 2010 at 9:43 am
As someone from Canada I think Lorena speaks a touch too highly of Canadians. We certainly don’t have nearly the same proportion of our population that are like the right wing extremists Americans call Republicans but we do have our (fortunately much smaller <1/3) share of nutters.
As for why the Ontario parks are so busy — easy access and a large population. There are some 11 million people in (southern) Ontario and most Ontario parks are within a three hour drive of that mass of people.
Kagehi
July 29, 2010 at 2:21 pm
Well.. Would say that you need to “buy” camping equipment, then deal with all the hassles from that, then pay to stay at the park, in most cases, etc. Most people add it up and conclude that it will cost them a lot more *and* the kids won’t like it. But, then you get the insane logic of the older generation too, which amounts to, “We don’t want someone that might drink beer and go topless, it would spook the 2 people that actually did show up who don’t like that, so lets pass 50 new ordinances that are intended to harass the people that actually “do” want to use the park. The logic being, you see, if you kick out all the spring breakers, all the old style Andy Griffith types will show up with their kids to fish instead. They tried this logic locally. All it got them was a 40% reduction, even before the economic down turn, in spring break attendees, and people complaining about why they couldn’t keep some drug dealer out of the town, find someone to pick up the trash, **or** actually enforce traffic laws, but they seemed to have 50 extra cops to go around checking to make sure women’s tits where not over exposed.
Its not that people don’t like the outdoors here, its that most would prefer a beach, which is often closer, cheaper, and costs less to use, than some place where they have to hike in, because some new rule says they can’t drive in, buy a mess of equipment they won’t use very often, because they have have almost no damn vacation time, given their 2-3 low paying jobs, etc. And, when they do go someplace, the only ones that can afford to, and have the time, are *precisely* the sort of asses that throw trash every place, or do things that set off the 3 people that showed up who are actually bothered by some things, but have the “special” privilege of being the 3 people the government(s) freak out about offending (i.e., someone that is convinced their 4 year old daughter will turn into an instant slut, because she saw someone semi-naked, and has some church someplace they can tell, who will write 5,000 complaining form letters, if a stop isn’t immediately put to the offense.)
desertscope
July 29, 2010 at 9:05 pm
Still, your complaints pale in importance with the thought that someone, somewhere, might see some boobies.
After all, who can prove to me that little Billy and Becky aren’t one boob-flash away from the pipe and the pole, respectively?
Eric the rabid non-theist
August 4, 2010 at 9:55 am
I’m from Ontario and no tea totaler but I’m very grateful for alcohol bans in provincial and national parks. On long weekends there are strictly enforced alcohol bans and they’re soo, soo nice. It would be very desirable to have those bans extended to year-round (but, that’s hoping for too much).
People simply aren’t able to go to a camp ground and enjoy a drink without being obnoxious.
On a camp ground there really aren’t consequences if you behave like an a**. Drinking to excess on a campsite is a rite of passage that people seem to want to perform over and over and over and… Annoy the living daylights out of your temporary neighbours and just drive away when you’re done “partying” without having to face any consequences for your actions (other than maybe a hangover).
BTW Ontario is horrendously puritanical (then again, I’m of a European mind set and descent so I find North American puritanism in all its vile and religious forms objectionable). We’ve got a state run monopoly on wine and liquor sales (with a very high sin tax) and a drinking age that’s laughably high (19… then again, in the US you’re even worse off with your local puritanical perverts having driven it up to 21 in many places). The only sane province in Canada is Quebec and there their drinking age is still a rather stiff 18.
Anonymous
July 25, 2011 at 11:34 am
Looking at the other comments, I have to say that you guys are rather ignorant. Maryland and Pennsylvania are “BLUE” states, aka the voters vote for the Democrats.